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Question
In a nutshell, I am employed in two different companies. The court via the IRS alleges that I owe them money (I don't know what the debt is about; the form does not state.). The court has reached out to my two employers and has told them to garnish my wages to pay the allege debt. The issue here is that it is the same debt and both my employers have received the paperwork. My concern is that both employers will be garnishing my wages for the same alleged debt. --The court is double-dipping on the alleged debt. Is that not considered fraud on the court's and/or IRS's side. If they allege I owe them money, then I should get an itemization of some sort to know what the debt is about AND they cannot be double-dipping.
If I am right, who do I formally file a complaint with and can I file a lawsuit against the court and/or IRS.
Please advise.
Asked in San Francisco, CA | | 3 answers
Answer
Posted
It is not legal for your wages to be garnished twice by two different employers for the same debt. This is known as double-dipping and it is not allowed by law. The court and/or IRS should provide you with an itemization of the alleged debt so that you can determine if it is accurate and why you owe it.
If you believe that the court and/or IRS is double-dipping and committing fraud, you should first try to resolve the issue with them directly. If that does not work, you may want to consult with an attorney who specializes in tax law to discuss your options.
You may also be able to file a complaint with the court or IRS regarding the alleged debt and the double-dipping issue. Additionally, you can contact your state attorney general's office or the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to report any fraudulent or illegal activity.
It is important to note that resolving debt issues can be complicated, and it is important to seek legal advice before taking any legal action.
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JAMES ARRASMITH WARNING: If this lawyer's comment sounds robotic, it's because he posted your question to ChatGPT, and the AI answered it, and Attorney Arrasmith cut and pasted it here as if it was his. See for yourself: https://chat-gpt.org/ In this other AVVO response, he even neglected to post the response. https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/authorized/in-a-personal-injury-case-can-the-defendant-ask-my-5750565.htmlYou can see for yourself, to the extent the AI detector app is any more reliable than the AI itself by posting your query here, and seeing how likely it is that Arrasmith used AI to respond to your query. https://gptzero.me/To review this lawyer: https://www.avvo.com/attorney-reviews/95827-ca-james-arrasmith-5150864/write_review.html
Asker
Posted
Thank you kindly, Ms. Koslyn, for bringing this to our attention. I am in agreement with you.Imo this is cheating; it is NOT fair or right. Is there a way we can assist you and the good lawyers that follow the rules? I would be happy to help.
If you consult with Attorney Arrasmith, then you can post of review of his (undisclosed AI) services https://www.avvo.com/attorney-reviews/95827-ca-james-arrasmith-5150864/write_review.html,
Asker
Posted
I have tried to get a consult with Mr. Arrasmith; unfortunately, he seems quite desperate for clients, as he charges for all consultations including the initial. I do not believe his ethics will take him very far. He is an atty and he should know better; I am not sure if the State Bar has jurisdiction over unethical business practices such as what Mr. Arrasmith is doing. Because I have no problem filing a complaint against attys who do not follow ethics or breach the oath.Thanks to all the attys who have integrity and wonderful work ethics.
Yes, the State Bar does govern lawyer ethics. But I don't think charging for an initial consultation is unethical. Now it may be bad customer service and bad business, but that's different. lawyers are encourage but not required to perform pro bono services. You'd think that any lawyer on this site wouldn't be all about money, but Arramsmith is new to AVVO, and maybe he won't last, as some of us AVVO lawyers have. At any rate, now that you've had a bad consumer experience with him, you're certainly free to leave Arrasmith a review that reflects that.
Asker
Posted
Thank you, Ms. Koslyn. I agree with you 100%. I will certainly leave my review and again. Hopefully, he will get his just deserts.Again, I commend you and all the attys who are not selfish and are dedicated to upholding the oath.Thank you!
Just so you know, doctors do have an ethical oath, the Hippocratic Oath, but lawyers have no oath. Instead we've got many State Bar Rules of professional Conduct, and our own consciences.
We do have an oath… it just doesn’t contain “do no harm”…
“Taking the attorney's oath is not just a ritual. It is required for admission to practice law in California.Calbar.org.govYou may take the oath at an in-person or virtual group swearing-in ceremony organized by your law school, local bar association, or through another group. The State Bar’s Office of Admissions no longer hosts admission ceremonies. “
“ Rule 9.4 states “In addition to the language required by Business and Professions Code section 6067, the oath to be taken by every person on admission to practice law is to conclude with the following: 'As an officer of the court, I will strive to conduct myself at all times with dignity, courtesy, and integrity.May 1, 2014”
I stand corrected.OATH (to be taken before a Notary or other authorized administering officer): I, (licensee name) solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of an attorney and counselor at law to the best of my knowledge and ability. As an officer of the court, I will strive to conduct myself at all times with dignity, courtesy and integrity.
I stood up and took that off on December 12, 1983. I never have forgotten that.
Asker
Posted
"We do have an oath… it just doesn’t contain “do no harm"…"The exact words ("do no harm") may not be stated or written in the oath, but I believe it is implied.Just sayin' (wink)Just sayin' lol
Honesty is more than implied. Feel free to complain to Avvo.
You bet!It's the principle. (wink)Thank you.
And thank you!
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Answer
Posted
A Judgment Creditor (the IRS for unpaid taxes, or any other creditor) can garnish your wages from different sources at the same time, and/or execute on their Judgment in any other ways, like from your bank accounts. What creditors can't do is get paid twice for the same debt. It's likely you also owe accrued interest and perhaps also penalties.
This is not a debt from any court. This is a Judgment Creditor enforcing a Judgment or the IRS executing on a tax lien, through the court. You can do a name search for yourself in your court's online records to see if someone sued you, or if the IRS filed tax lien.
Avvo doesn't pay us for these responses, and I'm not your lawyer just because I answer this question or respond to any follow-up comments.I'm aware that AVVO advertises itself as "free legal advice," and of course I know how everyone LOVES not having to pay a lawyer. But nonetheless, posts' terminology can be and frequently is inaccurate and/or omits important facts, and responses can be dead wrong. Because posts are anonymous on this site, there's no attorney-client relationship formed that could be relied on, no fiduciary duty, no duty of confidentiality, no duty of loyalty, and no accountability for any attorney that's wrong. I'm aware that people want to think of the lawyers that respond to their posts as their lawyers. I know this because people telephone me, not anonymously, and act like I know who they are. They post follow up comments days and weeks and even many months after their AVVO posts were made and I commented on them, to "update" me, again, as if I know who they are and they need to get me these updates and as if I'm they're lawyer.But my AVVO comments aren't reliable legal advice, and I'm not their lawyer, and they can't rely on anything any AVVO lawyer writes.Likewise, you can't rely, either.
Asker
Posted
Thank you for your prompt response.I will try to find out where this IRS thingamajig is about. In the meantime, what happens if both my employers pay the requested amount, as neither employers know each other or are aware that each have received the same requests for the same alleged debt. If both my employers pay the IRS for the same alleged debt, will the overage be automatically reverted back to me or how does it work?Thank you kindly again.
Unless the amount of the debt is so small that it's possible that too many wages could be garnished very quickly, you should have ample time to make sure there's no double dipping. You may already have the name/phone number of the IRS lawyer executing on this debt, so you could contact them. Yes, if the IRS gets more than it's entitled to, I'd expect them to refund the overage to you.
You can also file a claim of exemption within 10 days of notice of the attempt to collect your debt. You should have received information from the sheriff that will give you instructions.
Asker
Posted
Thank you kindly to both of you!No, I have not received anything from the Sheriff’s office; my employers each sent me a copy of the debt collection “request” form via USPS. This is how I found out about such debt and that the IRS is trying to collect from both employers. I feel that is not right. Will I need to chase down the IRS when they collect twice for the same debt? I don’t believe I should be having the be the one to have to hunt down the IRS for what’s rightfully mine because of their negligence.
What negligence?
Asker, if you have an unpaid debt, there's nothing wrong with these wage garnishments, So have you got unpaid child support? An unpaid student loan? Unpaid taxes? You should know whether or not you have these debts. This site seems pretty reliable:https://upsolve.org/learn/wage-garnishment-in-california/#:~:text=Certain%20creditors%2C%20including%20the%20IRS%20and%20the%20U.S.,taken%20from%20your%20paycheck%20to%20pay%20these%20debts.
Asker
Posted
Thank you kindly, Ms. Koslyn.Your expertise and time is GREATLY appreciated.Have a blessed day!
Asker
Posted
Hello Ms. Straus,You are absolutely correct. --It is NOT negligence; the IRS is committing straight up FRAUD.Thank you kindly for clearing that up.Have a nice day!
So sorry my response was not pleasant to read. I'm sure the IRS will explain it better.
Asker
Posted
I'm with you, Ms. Straus. The IRS has some serious explaining to do; it is a well-known fact that the IRS is not squeaky clean. Thank you for NOT condoning the IRS's deceptive business practices or willing to advocate for them.Have a nice day!
Answer
Debt Collection Attorney in San Diego, CA
| Licensed for 39 years
Posted
The creditor can garnish wages from each job.
Asker
Posted
Really???—For the same debt and for the same amount???Perhaps, I wasn’t clear. Please feel free to ask for clarification.Thank you.
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